For our ninth episode of Launch Codes, Joe and Andy are recording from a suite in Anaheim, California as they attend MOPs-Apalooza 2023! They discuss several of their favorite keynotes at the event, as well as Andy’s own presentation. Later in the episode, they touch on some fascinating AI news including OpenAI’s latest GPT enhancements and Elon Musk’s new ChatGPT rival “Grok”.


Listen Below


Episode Summary


MOPs-Apalooza 2023

Today’s episode was recorded on November 8th, 2023 — the final day of MOPs-Apalooza. Joe and Andy kick things off by commending Mike Rizzo and the entire MO Pro’s team on an outstanding inaugural event that exceeded expectations. There were several takeaways from every single session, and the whole thing was professional and engaging all the way through. Let’s get into some of their favorite keynotes and moments below.

Opening Session by Scott Brinker

MOPs-Apalooza 2023 started strong with a session titled “A Martech Supercollision: Smashing Together AI, Cloud Data, & Composability” presented by Scott Brinker (Editor at and VP of Platform Ecosystem at HubSpot). Both Joe and Andy were instantly captured by this one, stating that there were “aha” moments seemingly every few minutes. Joe highlighted a particular standout point on how we are moving along an “innovation timeline” moving from “code” to “low code” to “no code” with AI driving this disruption at every level of our organizations. Andy echoed the importance of this perspective and reflected on Scott’s ability to simplify complex topics into digestible pieces that really resonate.

The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Attribution by Andy Caron

Next up, the two dive into an incredible moment for Andy who had her own session at MOPs-Apalooza this year! The title of her presentation —“The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Attribution” — is inspired by one of her favorite novels of all time, “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” by Douglas Adams. Andy reflects on how she immediately fell in love with the novels over 20 years ago, highlighting Adams’ unique ability to offer deep insights into human nature and the world around us in a way that is fun and entertaining.

(Spoiler warning ahead for those who haven’t read the books yet!)

Andy explains how in the story, a supercomputer named “Deep Thought” says the answer to the ultimate question of the meaning of life, the universe, and everything is “42”. The overly intelligent race in the story wants to understand what this number means, but the computer says “They must understand the question for the answer to make sense”. From there, they develop an even greater, more complex computer to find the question to that answer.

This story parallels the exact attribution journey that Andy has seen many companies go through. She describes how people in organizations today are also looking for answers on where (and how) they should invest in complex AI models to drive revenue. They get results that don’t make a lot of sense, so they develop even more complex systems to find the question they should be asking around the answer they couldn’t interpret. Overall, the presentation was a resounding success, and Joe iterated how he was in the room and could tell that the audience was completely engaged.

It was a special moment for Andy and one she said she’ll remember for the rest of her life. She also shared that, to commemorate the convergence of people and the significance of finally bringing this presentation to an audience after a year of working on it, she got her very first tattoo! It was none other than the number “42” on her ankle. Listen to the full episode for more details on Andy’s presentation and the full story behind that awesome tattoo. You can also download the ebook Andy wrote as a companion to her presentation.

Other MOPs-Apalooza Highlights

The following are three other keynote presentations that Joe and Andy enjoyed at the event:

1. Translating Geek Speak to CMO Speak: Unveiling the Secrets to MOPS Career Success
by Jessica Kao and David Alexander

Joe absolutely loved the way they started this session. He highlighted an incredible point that David made which was: As a CMO, he doesn’t want to hear the name of a platform, he doesn’t know if it’s a “Marketo” thing or a “lean data” thing, he just wants to know what it does. This mindset shift towards an emphasis on what a system actually does and the role it plays resonated with Joe and Andy both.

Another part of the presentation they appreciated was the idea that we don’t need to tell our CMOs when something is broken or something can’t be done. Instead, focus on what you can deliver now and the goal you’re moving towards.

2. Get the F*ck Unstuck: How to Unlock Your True Potential
by Hana Jacover

This was another presentation that dealt less with the technical side of things and more on life and how to be successful and happy. Hana specifically touched on self-care and how to take care of yourself in our demanding roles at work. Joe had the opportunity to chat with her after the session and was blown away by her approach.

A standout moment was when she explained how biologically, we are just not designed to take 3 90 minute Zoom calls back-to-back-to-back. We need to have that level of self-awareness and reflect on how we set up the day for ourselves. Andy emphasized the importance of events like MOPs-Apalooza, and how these conferences not only offer technical growth sessions but also personal growth sessions like this one.

3. Building A Unified MOPS Data Platform
by Ryan Vong

The final honorable mention dives back into the technical side of things. It was the last session they attended and Ryan hit multiple home runs. One thing that really stuck with Joe was Ryan’s idea on the cost of bad data, which was: It costs $1 to be preemptive about bad data, $10 to fix bad data after the fact, and $100 if you don’t address it at all — for every data problem that you have.

Another idea that both Joe and Andy resonated with was the modern approach of pushing for “DataOps” which is an area where MOPs can play a real leadership role that connects Sales and Marketing. Andy remembers how even before “MOPs” was a title, she worked in “Database Marketing” which has now come full circle to include the data that is going into our systems.


Hot Takes



Since our team was on location in Anaheim at MOPs-Apalooza, Joe wasn’t able to bring any physical records for this week’s pairings. But he did give a shout out to the recently released single, “Now and Then” by The Beatles – a beautiful song that was completely with the help of AI! For Anydy’s pairing, she recommended a book called “The Master Switch: The Rise and Fall of Information Empires” by Tim Wu. It’s a book she has read several times, gaining new insights from every reread.


Read The Transcript

Disclaimer: This transcript was created by AI using Descript and has not been edited.

[00:00:00] Joe Peters:: Welcome to episode nine. I’m your host, Joe Peters. On today’s episode, Top of the Ops, highlights from Mopsapalooza 2023, a cornucopia of treats from AI This Week. And I’m joined live on, on location here at Mopsapalooza in Anaheim, California with Andy. And Andy, what are you excited to talk about this week?

[00:00:26] Andy Caron:: All of it, but especially Mousepalooza, just what an amazing event, absolutely just top

[00:00:32] Joe Peters:: notch. Yeah, I think it exceeded all of our expectations. Hats off to all of the team, Mike Rizzo and the gang. They’ve just really outdone themselves for a first conference. It was professional and engaging from minute one.

[00:00:53] Andy Caron:: Yes, absolutely. Every, every session I went to, there was a, there was a winner. There was at least several takeaways that I was actually taking notes on. It wasn’t just like, Oh, this is interesting, but not actionable. So many actionable things. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible.

[00:01:09] Joe Peters:: I, and just from the opening keynote with Scott Brinker, that was, that was incredible.

[00:01:15] Joe Peters:: There were aha moments it seemed like every couple of minutes that you’d run through something and just trigger a light bulb and you’d be, Oh, I hadn’t really thought about it that way. Oh, that’s a really good way of categorizing things. I really loved when he talked about this innovation timeline and moving from.

[00:01:36] Joe Peters:: Code to low code to no code and how it’s kind of like the democratization of, I’m going to say marketing from a technology base, but really empowering marketers to do a lot more than they ever could.

[00:01:56] Andy Caron:: Absolutely. And to be thinking about. Both came right before he, he affairs with me before we cam. like not being bankrupt is a good way to things that, that they probably had,

[00:02:15] Joe Peters:: Possibly thought about back then.

[00:02:18] Joe Peters:: Certainly I’m one of the people who was like, I mean, Coding, low code, no code evolution, and how it connects to AI and use cases. So the idea of that low end use case, that mid range use case, that high end use case, that it’s going to have significant impact in your organization and how no code in AI is driving this transformation within organizations, driving this disruption.

[00:02:48] Joe Peters:: He said, I don’t like saying transformation. We can go with disruption. We’re good with that one. But. I love that framing and integration of those two

[00:02:58] Andy Caron:: concepts. Well, and the fact that he’d already… He had already passed, right, like, the first stage and was already heading into that mid range, right? Like, he had blown past slow, like, that’s already happening, we’re in trajectory for mid already, and it’s happening just so fast.

[00:03:14] Andy Caron:: It’s really, it, yeah, which is true, but I hadn’t paused to think about it and go, yeah, that already happened, like, that’s already the past. It was, yeah, he was phenomenal. And I somehow, this is bad to say, but I somehow missed that he was going to be our first keynote. And so when they said that’s who was coming on stage, I was like, Oh, yes, yes, yes.

[00:03:35] Andy Caron:: So excited. He was, it was phenomenal speaker to see. He just, he simplified such complexity down into digestible pieces that allowed you to really take something and consider it without feeling overwhelmed by it.

[00:03:48] Joe Peters:: Yeah. There were so many takeaways from that. And I’m still waiting to get access to his deck.

[00:03:53] Joe Peters:: He said he was going to share it, but we haven’t seen it yet. There’s just a treasure trove of information and insights there. Well, speaking of treasure trove and let’s segue right into your session where you kind of looked at the meaning of life, the universe and attribution. And there’s so many different layers we can start with here, but Just a small thing to tackle.

[00:04:16] Joe Peters:: Why don’t we, why don’t we start with your, this is your labour of love passion project with some, you know, The Hitchhiker’s Guide, which is your, your, arguably your favourite, most favourite novel. Yes. Tell everyone a little bit about what your mindset was and thinking about this and then I can tell you how it came off But why don’t you talk about your process there?

[00:04:41] Joe Peters:: Yes,

[00:04:42] Andy Caron:: so I read Hitchhiker’s Guide and the concurrent novels over 20 years ago immediately fell in love it was just a Love affair of the the merging of Comedy and sci fi, but with this level of insight into the world, humanity, how we’re wired, and a nuanced way of, of making fun of it and critiquing it and kind of pointing things out without just overtly saying, here’s the, the, the fun.

[00:05:14] Andy Caron:: Flawed aspects of humanity or just consciousness as a whole. And also here’s a fun ride to take along with all of that as you hitchhike across the galaxy and, and have just this like sort of stupid, like in what. Galaxy is a towel, the most useful thing, right? But it is, so it’s, it’s, it’s a fun thing.

[00:05:36] Andy Caron:: So about a year ago, I was thinking about. The sort of parable within the novels of this pan dimensional super race of beings that decided that they wanted to or maybe even needed to know the answer to the ultimate question of the meaning of life, universe, and everything. It’s a huge question, right? And so they built a supercomputer, Deep Thought, to tell them the answer.

[00:06:05] Andy Caron:: And they waited generations, tens of thousands of years. And the culture was just focused and centric around the output that they would eventually get from deep thought and how that would bring everything together. And their whole culture was almost like dependent on whatever this answer would be. It’s a media frenzy around it.

[00:06:27] Andy Caron:: And then the day comes. And out, you know, pops the answer, deep thoughts, like the answer to the ultimate question of the meaning of life, universe, and everything is 42. Exactly. And pin drop, right? Like what, what do you do with that? Right? It’s, it’s such a nonsensical answer. And so of course they do what any overly intelligent organization, race, Would do culture in a planet and they say, okay, well, what’s that mean?

[00:06:59] Andy Caron:: The computer says, well, only when you know the question, well, the answer makes sense, right? So at that point they’re invested. They say, what’s, what’s the question? And the computer says, I can’t tell you that, but I can help you to develop this bigger, more complex, intensely complex computer that will give you the answer.

[00:07:18] Andy Caron:: And then, or the question rather, and then the answer will make sense. And the parable of this against people within their own organizations, building these very complex systems or adopting these very complex AI models and looking for the answer of where they should be investing and how they can make more money, how they can drive revenue, the dependency on that and waiting for the results rather than Continuing to evolve and take action and looking for meaning within the minutia of the day to day and then getting an answer that makes no sense, they double, triple, quadruple down and make an even more complex system to then get, you know, the question that they should be asking around the answer that they received because it didn’t make any sense to me just was too attribution journey that I’ve seen so many organizations take.

[00:08:09] Andy Caron:: It was too perfect.

[00:08:11] Joe Peters:: 100%. And I, what I thought was so cool was. The idea of using 42 as that placeholder and that you, that in the answer 42, 42 has meaning for everyone and everyone gets to figure out what their 42 is. Well

[00:08:26] Andy Caron:: that, that was, that was the, the, the linchpin for me when I knew I needed to take this.

[00:08:32] Andy Caron:: into this form of presentation, so I came across the fact, and Douglas Adams claims that this was not intentional, I don’t know, maybe it’s subconscious, maybe it was intentional, he just didn’t want to say so, but he was a technophile, he loved computers, he loved computer language, early language that he was a big fan of, ASC 2, 42 is the keystroke for an asterisk, and when you think about in the context of data, the asterisk is a placeholder, it’s something, to your point, that you put in place when you don’t, you know you don’t know something, there’s something there, But I love this idea of 42 in that computer, deep thoughts language is an asterisk and an asterisk essentially means whatever you need it to mean.

[00:09:13] Andy Caron:: And so this huge question had an answer that was exceptionally deep actually that could have, that could have fed their media circus for generations, right? What is the meaning of everything? Whatever you need it to mean for you, there’s, there’s something there, right? In the same way that 42 meant nothing to them, the data that marketers are getting from attribution doesn’t mean anything to them because a, the questions are too big and they’re trying to get too much out of one question and one answer, but also be, they’re not speaking the language of their systems, their data to actually understand that there is a deeper meeting in there.

[00:09:56] Andy Caron:: They just. aren’t either speaking their computer’s language or getting the computer to be able to speak their language to output what that action or that meaning is or should

[00:10:06] Joe Peters:: be. It was I can tell it was extremely well received. Not only was I in the room, but I could observe. And what I find in, when you’re going to different sessions, the sign of good session is how often people are bringing up their phones, right?

[00:10:21] Joe Peters:: Oh, I got to capture that. I got to capture that. It was, and he was a celebrity with all the shots that were taken of her, but. I think the other part and I don’t know if this is fair for me to ask but there’s another 42 story that we added In terms of some ink, being added this week. So why don’t why don’t you share share

[00:10:41] Andy Caron:: that story?

[00:10:42] Andy Caron:: Yes Yes, so I found out in advance of coming that there were going to be tattoos happening

[00:10:53] Andy Caron:: On real tattoos And in in preparing for my session I had had this It’s sort of a recurrence of 42. It just was this bizarre thing. Like I actually took my progression and put it into chat GPT to make sure my timing was on point. Right. And I judged and I was pulling it back and saying, okay, well, if I take this long and these slides, how do I get within the range of that, you know, 40 to 45 minute slot that I needed to hit And the final pass, because I, I, after that I was like, I’m done.

[00:11:18] Andy Caron:: I can’t, I can’t do any more. It came back and it said, your session will take 42 minutes and 42 seconds. And I literally cackled out loud. I was like, I see you Douglas Adams, right? Like, yeah. So I have never gotten a tattoo before. I, I, I was a noob. And I, I really, I thought about it long and hard, but.

[00:11:40] Andy Caron:: The, the, in college, everyone was getting them, right? And I always looked at it and said, I don’t know that I want anything on my body until I’m 80. But the reality is, I mean, God willing, I make it to 80, but I think that it, the, the convergence of the people, the significance of what happened here and being able to bring this session that I’ve, I’ve literally been developing for a year, To this particular conference at this time was something that I do want to remember until I’m 80.

[00:12:11] Andy Caron:: And so I got a I got a 42 on my ankle. I just got goosebumps

[00:12:14] Joe Peters:: there. I just got goosebumps because not only do you have that memory, but it’s also, you’ve created a gift for everyone as well. And that you’ve taken this guide and now there is a little ebook on this that, that is available so that if you missed, if you’re getting FOMO from this discussion on the session there is the ability for you to, to download and, and check out what Andy’s been sharing in terms of connecting your guide to the galaxy and attribution is now at your fingertips.

[00:12:46] Joe Peters:: But Andy, congrats on a great session, but let’s get to a couple of other ones that we, we really enjoyed. The first one, there was some non technical streams that I thought were really cool. And by non technical, I wasn’t getting into the nuts and bolts or deep into the technologies, but we’re talking about life and how do you be successful.

[00:13:12] Joe Peters:: So we’re And Jessica Kao, and what was the other guy’s name? David Alexander. David Alexander. They did a session on how to speak the language of your CMO. That might not be the exact title of it, but just work with us here. Yes. Yes. Because I… Loved the way they started the session, and David had some really incredible points.

[00:13:33] Joe Peters:: He said, I never want to hear the name as a CMO. I never want to hear the name of a platform. Don’t tell me a platform. I don’t want to know that. This is a marketo thing or a lean data thing or a clear, but then I just I want to know what it does. So talk to me, just change your mindset a little bit. And I don’t want to hear you mention a platform.

[00:13:51] Joe Peters:: Just tell me about what this system does or what the system’s role is. And I felt like that was, I think for people in the room, I, you could see people’s brains exploding at that idea because we’re so close to it. We live and breathe this. But it’s our language, not the language of leadership. But

[00:14:11] Andy Caron:: I think as very technical people, right, we figure something out, we crack something, and we get really excited about it, and we want to go share that.

[00:14:19] Andy Caron:: But ultimately what we’re not doing, instead of saying like, Oh, there’s this really cool thing I made the system do. I did this cool thing in the system, that’s great, but here’s the outcome that will be driven because of it and that’s what ladders up into senior leadership. What are the outcomes that are occurring within the business?

[00:14:36] Andy Caron:: Or what if you stopped that now, you know, has improved things that will then yield outcomes. Yeah, right. That flipping the script to talking about not what matters to you, but what matters to them. And

[00:14:53] Joe Peters:: I thought the other part, if we take the sort of the next step in that was Don’t tell me when something’s broken or what you can’t do.

[00:15:02] Joe Peters:: Okay. Tell me what you can deliver and what you’re moving towards. But this idea that, you know, we all live in this world where we want perfection and mobs, and some of that is going to be like Maslow’s hierarchy. We may never reach self actualization when it comes to getting everything working perfectly.

[00:15:21] Joe Peters:: So we can always get mired in this. This is broken. I can’t do this. I can’t do this. Look what I inherited. No, no, no. That’s another change in mindset to start to think through this. I can do this right now, and I want to be able to do this next. Beautiful language. A love language.

[00:15:41] Andy Caron:: Yes. I will fund you improving efficiency from 75 to 85.

[00:15:46] Andy Caron:: But I will not fund something where it’s, it’s broken in and I want to fix it. Right? It’s, it’s the gain, not the current status. Yes.

[00:15:56] Joe Peters:: So, great session. A reminder for all of us, and I, I really feel it was an eye opener for those people in the room. It’s a session that a lot of people have continued to talk about, and that was on Monday.

[00:16:07] Joe Peters:: Yes. For those of you at home, it’s Wednesday today, so just it, we, it, it’s a, it’s a theme that I think really resonated with a lot of people. And then this next session that, Hannah Yakover, or I think that’s how you pronounce her last name on self care and, and, and the idea of how do you optimize yourself and how do you take care of yourself in our demanding work life?

[00:16:35] Joe Peters:: So what’s that balance? That you need to create, and what does that look like? And I was just blown away having the chance to chat with her after the session, and hear about her approach, and, and, and, and, and the, I don’t know, it just, there was like light bulb, light bulb, light bulb going off the whole time.

[00:16:56] Andy Caron:: Yes, yes, I mean, I think, Having an opportunity in the middle of pursuing growth, right? That’s what most of us are here for at this type of a conference to realize that, you know, it’s not the technical growth. Right. It’s, it’s getting yourself unstuck from other areas that then allow you to have the baseline to then have the capacity to grow more in the technical and other areas of your career, right?

[00:17:22] Andy Caron:: Personal growth leads to career growth. And I think the connection between those two things is just so powerful.

[00:17:28] Joe Peters:: And I, I, what, what I took away from my chatting with her was. We often don’t think about how do we perform our best at a biological level. We’re not equipped to do three 90 minute zooms back to back to back.

[00:17:45] Joe Peters:: We’re not equipped for that. We’re never going to perform our best in those situations. So that self awareness, that reflection on what we set ourselves up to, what do we put our hands up for? Oh, I can’t miss that. I can’t miss that. And also how do we reset that? These are very powerful things for people to think about, to complement your technological skills with that self awareness, self care, to speak the language of CMOs and leadership.

[00:18:17] Joe Peters:: These are some really beautiful connections being made between what is essential to be successful in

[00:18:24] Andy Caron:: our work life. Yes, and I think it just… Shows how much we’ve come in the sense that these are the conversations that we’re having. It’s not just a way to do really cool stuff, right? It’s how to get yourself to a place where you can do really cool stuff.

[00:18:42] Andy Caron:: And that’s such a wonderful evolution to see for such a technical community. That those are the conversations that we’re having that people are continuing to talk about. These two sessions were two of the most talked about sessions that I encountered across the entirety of this whole conference, because they, they, they, they stepped back.

[00:19:02] Andy Caron:: I mean, I love all the conversation on AI, APS, right? All these cool things that people are doing, but at the end of the day, you can’t do any of that if you’re not doing this.

[00:19:10] Joe Peters:: Exactly, exactly. And well, I, it is also. Eye opening for us to make sure we’re not forgetting all those different pieces. Yeah. As, as leaders in our, in our organization, really making sure that we’re helping equip people in all of these different areas to be successful.

[00:19:31] Joe Peters:: But now the nerd back, like just to get back into it, we just finished seeing this morning. The last session for us was one that Ryan Vaughn put on and Ryan is, He was an extremely thoughtful and passionate person. He was a little nervous going into a session, but he hit a home run, maybe multiple home runs.

[00:19:55] Joe Peters:: It was, it was excellent. And he went on this journey in Canada, we’ll often say he went for a walk in the snow to kind of figure out what he was doing next. And then he came across this challenge of data. Yes. What’s happening with data and what are we doing with it? How are we optimizing it? How are we, how are we making it sure that it’s a partner in our business and an accelerator in our business and not an anchor that we’re dragging along on the ground?

[00:20:32] Joe Peters:: And I, I, there was a couple of things that really struck with me. You know, he had this idea of the cost of bad data. It’s 1 to be preemptive 10 to fix it. And it’s a hundred dollars if you don’t do anything with it for every data problem that you have. And so when you, when you add that, add that up exponentially, that looks that those can be some really big numbers, but this other idea that we need to expand our thinking into A new model of of a modern data approach where we’ve thought of rev ops, we thought of marketing ops, but now we need to be pushing for data ops and, and that is a real role where mops can play a leadership in the connectivity between whether that’s sales, marketing it, this is a journey that cannot be, executed by a single part of the organization, but it can be led.

[00:21:32] Joe Peters:: And I think this is a really great place for, for mobsta to maybe put another hat on, or at least another pin on it, on, on our hats.

[00:21:40] Andy Caron:: Yes. But I think it’s interesting too. I’ve had a number of, of great conversations with some very smart people this week and, and the persistent theme, which Ryan really, I think, hit home was.

[00:21:56] Andy Caron:: I remember one of my very first titles before mops was even a title was database marketing, right? Yeah. And we’re in that final stage of transitioning from being responsible for databases to becoming responsible for data, right? And how that transition from database within a specific system into data within the ecosystem and all the systems as a whole is a paradigm shift that we have to make now.

[00:22:29] Andy Caron:: And then the orchestration of that and how Ryan’s thinking about that is the part that I am so, I’m most in love

[00:22:39] Joe Peters:: with. This concept of composability is something that’s come up in a lot of conversations. Such a through line, yes. And, and I really do think that you know, whether we’re talking about ETLs, reverse ETLs, and, and this idea of interconnectivity.

[00:22:55] Joe Peters:: What has been our aspirational place to be, we have the pieces in place to make it a reality and it’s, it’s going to take some time and investment, but it’s, that’s where the dividends are coming from and not the losses. And that’s, I think that understanding that tension and understanding that opportunity is super important.

[00:23:18] Joe Peters:: Okay, well, as you can tell, we’re big fans of Mopsapalooza. There was no shortage of fun, but before we move on to some of our hot takes, I’d like to thank our sponsors at Knack for helping us out with today’s episode. Knack is the no code platform that allows you to build campaigns in minutes. Learn why tens of thousands of marketers rely on Knack to create beautiful on brand emails and landing pages.

[00:23:51] Joe Peters:: So, like every week, this is another mammoth week in AI developments. So, the, I’m not sure, the coincidence. It definitely is an irony, but I’m going to say the coincidence of Grok being released by Elon and the gang at AI, X. AI on on Sunday and the idea that Grok was going to take a theme of the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy as kind of the Style and humanization, it, it was, can we have any more symbolism?

[00:24:29] Joe Peters:: There’s a

[00:24:29] Andy Caron:: synchronicity to it, right? Like there is, there is that, that bit of, yes.

[00:24:33] Joe Peters:: It’s not a coincidence. This is beyond coincidence. This is the universe saying, hey, there’s too many things to check here. So. It’s early days on Grok. Like we’re, we don’t, no one can get really access to it now. It’s going to be a while before we get to play around with it.

[00:24:50] Joe Peters:: But I think what I’ve taken away from the things that I’ve seen so far is it’s the Twitter idea of freedom of speech being taken to AI. And so the guardrails that. The gang at OpenAI has put on on GPT and making sure that you can’t, you know, generate offensive content. Or that there isn’t a bias or any of those things is kind of out the window.

[00:25:19] Joe Peters:: What I’m seeing a lot of people start to play around with is, roast this person viciously. Use vulgar, say this in a vulgar way. And the, and the AI responding with, without those guardrails. So I don’t know, like, are these screenshots that people are manipulating? We’re not going to be able to know for sure, but I think it’s a whole new era where we’re taking this free speech concept.

[00:25:43] Joe Peters:: If these, if these things that people are sharing are true, we’re in for something. And I don’t think we can really predict how, how much of an impact this kind of. Open, free speech can, can have, and I’m going to say the negative sides of this, and we like to, we like to talk about the positives, but the negatives on this, it, it has me a tiny bit concerned.

[00:26:10] Andy Caron:: Agreed. I don’t know. It’s, it’s, this is, this is one of those things where there isn’t a good gray area, right? Like either it is open or it’s closed, right? That, that, that is the dichotomy that we have to live it within here. And so I think we have to try both ways and see how it works and then make a decision I know it’s going to be it’s going to be not great I think there’s going to be some really negative things that come out of it some scary stuff some things that Maybe turn people off and people, you know scale back from it a little bit Maybe take a step back and really think but i’d rather have us taking a step back and thinking about it now and then moving forward in a very You know thoughtful way than having this, you know scale out later, but it yeah, it’s gonna be

[00:26:56] Joe Peters:: interesting and you know I love twitter twitter and linkedin for business.

[00:27:02] Joe Peters:: I feel like are so important, sources of information I love my feeds. I love what I get but linkedin is a very positive environment. Yes, okay twitter can be assessed pool of negativity And so it’s going to be interesting as we move out of this i’m going to say Boundaries set to this unshackling of the Yeah, it’s going to be interesting.

[00:27:30] Joe Peters:: Interesting is pro is not strong enough. But anyway. No we’ll, we’ll, Elon, he , he knows . He, he definitely is an interesting character and we shouldn’t be surprised that this is his

[00:27:43] Andy Caron:: take on it. No, not at all. In fact, if anything, it was almost too unbrand.

[00:27:50] Joe Peters:: Too much for us. Well, he is too much for, for many people, but he is a very successful entrepreneur.

[00:27:57] Joe Peters:: So we, we can’t we can’t take that away from him. So let’s switch to the open AI announcements and this, we could do the whole launch codes episode on what happened this week with the developer conference and some of the things that have come out. I’ve been like refreshing and refreshing my GPT interface to see if I’ve got the new features enabled because I can’t wait to play with this, but the one that I am just fascinated with is the idea of creating your own GPT.

[00:28:30] Joe Peters:: So you’re going to have your own agents. So you get to. Upload some content, set some parameters around how that GPT is going to behave, how you get to name it, you get to give it a an image or a brand associated with it, and then that you get to save and share that you can either use it for personal use.

[00:28:50] Joe Peters:: Or you can use it you can, you can share it with the world. People will be able to sell these eventually as well. So these are enterprise, which is really where we’re emphasizing. Enterprises will be able to create their own GPTs internally and be able to share them only internally. And that’s going to be a beautiful thing as well.

[00:29:09] Joe Peters:: So I don’t know, I, that, that there are a million other announcements this week in terms of. Things that are going to be improvement, but this is the one that I, I can’t wait to see what we can do with it.

[00:29:20] Andy Caron:: Yeah. I think this is a nod to what people are already doing kind of within their own smaller chat GPTs.

[00:29:27] Andy Caron:: They’re, they’re building out, you know, their helper, their model, right? Like I know someone who’s got a lieutenant data, right? We’ve got someone on staff who’s got buttercup, the unicorn. And that is, he is her, her go to for things, right? A friend recently sent me a chat GPT model that had been built. To respond as if Douglas Adams were sending the response back to you.

[00:29:48] Andy Caron:: So this idea of that customization, this is just making it more accessible, customizable, truly like a a unique version of that engagement and interaction model that you’re already kind of doing on your own, but really cementing it. It’s very

[00:30:05] Joe Peters:: cool. Super cool. And. The idea of these being either web connected or not or having different plugins that they can rely on and I, I think we’re in for a world of creativity and advancement just from this one announcement alone, but what a week.

[00:30:24] Joe Peters:: What a great time to be alive. Whether you’re Online or get to be here in anaheim. It was a just a fantastic week For our mops community and those of us that are passionate about some of the things that are advancing in in ai but all right, let’s move on to our final segment so today I wasn’t, I couldn’t fit my turntable and records into my suitcase.

[00:30:49] Joe Peters:: It’s maybe a little bit much to ask, but there was a song that came out in the last week that almost gives me goosebumps to talk about it. And and it’s the last Beatles song, now and then, which with the assistance of AI, they were able to take. Cassette that John Lennon had made and had a song that he had created.

[00:31:12] Joe Peters:: And for the longest time, it was very hard to use cassette technology to separate the voice. from the piano. Interesting. So it’s only recently that they were able to separate it and then be able to enhance it, clean it up, and then have Ringo and and Paul and, and George contribute to a final Beatles song.

[00:31:37] Joe Peters:: And it is. exceptional in many ways, but also I think a beautiful way of having AI give us something that we We thought we had lost or would never have access to before. And so I know a lot of people are really nervous about what AI generated music is going to be in the future and all of those things.

[00:32:01] Joe Peters:: But I think this is such a beautiful story and a, just a beautiful song as well. So if you get a chance at the end of the of this episode of launch codes, we’ll have a little segment for you to hear that, that track now and then, but I really encourage you to have a listen to it. And it is. It is a really powerful thing to behold.

[00:32:22] Joe Peters:: And so, what are you pairing for us? Well, it should be the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, but it’s not. So, what is our pairing this week, Andy?

[00:32:31] Andy Caron:: I did that as a teaser for the last episode, because it was just so top of mind at the moment. And right now I am circling back in a book that was written a number of years ago.

[00:32:40] Andy Caron:: I’ve read it several times. Each time I read it, I take something new away from it. So Tim Wu, fantastic author. It is nonfiction and it is his book, The Master Switch. So it’s the rise and fall of information empires. And it was written with sort of a view on the internet and what would come based on His exploration of other information empires.

[00:33:04] Andy Caron:: So it starts with electronic or electricity telephony then goes into radio movies and then television. And it looks at how the technology develops. How it becomes this very open source, anybody can play with it thing, and then it goes into a closed source system. And so this, against the lens of where we are right now with AI for me, is really an interesting treatise on what we potentially might be looking at as far as open now than to close, or is that not going to follow that same paradigm in the same way that the internet has not?

[00:33:42] Andy Caron:: Yeah.

[00:33:43] Joe Peters:: Well, it’s, we have a lot to learn from history, right? Always. We have to. We have to remember that we’re, what we’re entering uncharted waters, there’s a lot of lessons from the past that we should be acknowledging and thinking through. Yeah, so

[00:33:56] Andy Caron:: this is a fantastic book and it, it has a great, the, the voice within it, Tim’s voice is, is very present and he is a wonderful storyteller.

[00:34:06] Andy Caron:: He weaves it together in a way where it almost feels as if you’re reading fiction in that sense of kind of having that, That that narrative and through point that gives you that really truly dynamic story fantastic book I everything I do is on audible these days But this is one of my very first audible books way back in the day I’ve listened to it multiple times introduced my husband to it.

[00:34:28] Andy Caron:: He loved it I I have bought copies of this book for people. It’s a favorite. So definitely I think right now It’s top of mind for me to go back and read it again because I think it’s timely Well, I have

[00:34:39] Joe Peters:: some long flights to get through over the next little while, so I might download it and have a listen, but that’s, that’s great.

[00:34:46] Joe Peters:: All right, well, that’s it for this episode of Launch Codes. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review. You can find us on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts, and stay connected with us on LinkedIn by joining our newsletter in the link in the description of the show.

[00:35:06] Joe Peters:: And, as always, thanks, Mom, for watching. Thanks a lot, Andy.