On this week of Launch Codes, Joe Peters is joined by Matt Tonkin, Sr. Director of Partnerships and our first returning guest. Here’s what we cover:

  • The first shakedowns in the AI industry
  • The next generation of marketing operations
  • The most common pitfalls that companies make when building a MOPs function
  • How to know if your MOPs team is ready for AI
  • What personal info would you give away for a good deal?
  • Joe brings in his record of the week and Matt bids farewell to warm weather by showcasing his favorite summer beer.


Listen below


Episode summary

The first shakedowns in the AI industry

Nicholas Thompson, the CEO of the Atlantic, shared a ‘The Most Interesting Thing in Tech‘ last week about the shakedown in the AI industry. This comes after Jasper, an AI writer and marketing software, cut its internal valuation by 20% amid slowing growth.

“There are a lot of companies that use essentially a GPT4 call and then a little design on top of it, and then call themselves a really complicated AI company,” Thompson said. “But they’re not doing anything besides calling GPT4.”

Nicholson goes on to explain that this leaves AI companies vulnerable because they don’t have a moat. A moat is a distinct advantage a company has over its competitors that allows it to protect its market share and profitability.

While the focus of Thompson’s piece is largely on valuations, there is also a concern for AI development.

“With so many new features are being added into GPT on almost a weekly basis, you’re getting a lot of bang for your buck with GPT4 with the pro subscription that there needs to be a real value proposition with these other tools” Joe said.

Companies that are trying to compete using OpenAI technology need to find ways to keep innovating and try to determine a possible moat.


MOPs: The next generation

A recent article by Chris Wood on Martech.org discusses the challenge for marketing automation leaders to strike a balance between maintaining the quality of traditional approaches and adding new technologies for fresh ways of executing campaigns.

One particularly interesting notion Wood hit on was no-code and low-code platforms that have “enabled more team members to carry out marketing automation functions… where they don’t have to depend on IT teams.”

Joe and Matt explored the idea of whether coding is still a necessary skill in MOPs and what should teams be trying to learn otherwise?

There are certainly many marketing ops pros who have made successful careers without knowing any bit of coding, including HTML. However, it’s a good skill if you want to be self-reliant and not have to wait for an IT team or an agency partner to implement solutions.

Matt gave the example of using ChatGPT for creating code. While you may not be able to write code from scratch, having a base foundation to read the script and understand how to troubleshoot in situations where the code is not perfect gives you a major competitive edge.

AI literacy will be a critical skill for MOPs professionals (along with almost everyone else) in the coming years.

“If you’re just in a situation where you have zero background information or context, GPT may seem like a genius, but you don’t have anything to filter it against,” Joe said. “You’re going to need a foundation that you can build upon with generative AI.”


The most common pitfalls that companies make when building a MOPs function

This question comes from the MarketingOps.com Slack Channel and is used with permission from founder, Mike Rizzo.

Siloing is one of the most common pitfalls Matt sees in MOPs functions. Sometimes it’s that MOPs is too siloed and not communicating with sales and customer success. Other times, it’s that marketing ops is not siloed enough and has become a function of marketing.

“Build out a cohesive RevOps where everyone is working together,” Matt said. That doesn’t mean MOPs can’t have some separation from marketing and getting tools that work for them. It’s about having collaboration while knowing what job is being done.”

Smart organizations will also look into the future at how their teams and tech stacks can scale as the company grows. There are routes and structures that companies can use as a roadmap when building out their teams. Joe mentioned the example of a LinkedIn post by Darrel Alfonso on the structure for small, mid-sized and large marketing operations teams and the goals for each size.


Hot takes

  • Three ways to measure if your MOPs team is ready for AI
    • Before you decide on the use of a tool, it’s important to consider some questions.
  • What personal info would you give away for a good deal?
    • A survey of 2,000 adult consumers found that while many consumers are weary of advertisers using AI, they’ll still give up their personal details for a good deal.
  • The Rewind AI pendant
    • A wearable life recorder or a real-world Black Mirror episode waiting to happen?


As always, Joe brought in a vinyl record from his favorite band (hint: designer suits and indie rock) and Matt brought in a favorite summer beer and started the great debate between Muskoka chairs and Adirondack chairs.


[00:00:00] Joe Peters: Welcome to Launch Codes, the podcast about marketing operations, artificial intelligence, and more. Each week, you’ll hear from experts as they share insights, stories, and strategies. Welcome to episode five. I’m your host, Joe Peters. On today’s episode, we’re covering the first shakedowns in the AI industry, the next generation of marketing operations, answering a question from the mops community, A couple of hot takes.

[00:00:32] Joe Peters: How to know if your mops team is ready for AI? And what personal information would you give away for a good deal? Today, I’m joined by Matt Tonkin. Morning, Matt. Which topics are you excited

[00:00:45] Matt Tonkin: about today? I think personally most excited about next generation of marketing ops. It’s always. I know personally getting into marketing ops.

[00:00:54] Matt Tonkin: I think back, like, I don’t really know how I got into marketing ops. I just kind of got thrown at it.[00:01:00] So it’s interesting to think of people now planning their careers and like learning things specifically to get into this because I think a lot of people in the space are like me, you just sort of fall into it.

[00:01:11] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, there was

[00:01:12] Joe Peters: no marketing ops program at college or university. That’s for sure.

[00:01:17] Matt Tonkin: Right? No, you just sort of you get handed a system. It’s like, do you know how to do this? I’ll try, especially when you just figure it out. Yeah. Figure it out, Matt.

[00:01:27] Joe Peters: Yeah. All right. Well, let’s, let’s talk about our first topic, which is the first shakedowns in the AI industry.

[00:01:34] Joe Peters: And this came from the CEO of the Atlantic, Nicholas Thompson. I have a real soft spot for his daily videos that he produces on LinkedIn. And so what he was saying, where we’re
seeing the shakedown appearing at first is Companies say they’re solving complicated problems with AI and what we saw, [00:02:00] maybe, you know, three or four months ago, maybe a little longer, they’re using API calls to GPT 3.

[00:02:09] Joe Peters: 5, but they’re not really doing anything besides that. And so when you do that, one, you have no barrier to competition and two GPT four. Comes along and is working better than your finely tuned GPT 3. 5 model. What do you think about that,

[00:02:30] Matt Tonkin: Matt? Yeah, it’s interesting because I think it’s true. I’ve seen a few of these companies where, yeah, it’s just essentially, it’s a really nice looking way to interact with a chat GPT essentially.

[00:02:43] Matt Tonkin: I don’t know if that’s necessarily, I guess it depends on the market, right? Like in our space, I think. We have enough people that we know and team members that are capable of working directly with the systems that it doesn’t make sense for us, [00:03:00] but I can see when you don’t have that level of technical knowledge, having a nice, clean setup that you can work with.

[00:03:07] Matt Tonkin: There’s a real benefit to that. But yeah, it’s sort of what’s that worth to you, right?

[00:03:12] Joe Peters: Exactly. And what we’re seeing is so many new features are being added into GPT. Seems almost on a weekly basis last week, you know, with the ability to upload a photo and get it to interpret it for you. And I think, you know, in a week or so we’re going to see the Dolly three integration.

[00:03:37] Joe Peters: You know, you’re getting a lot of bang for your buck with GPT four with the, you know, pro subscription. Wow. You’ve got to have a real value proposition with these other

[00:03:49] Matt Tonkin: tools. Yeah, definitely. And I think you’re right. Like chat GPT did the work on getting the actual. Model of getting the base [00:04:00] interactions and yeah, company started, you know, building a nice way to interact with that doesn’t mean chat GPT is going to just sit around and, and not start making it smoother, making it cleaner.

[00:04:09] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, to me, it’s that, it’s that balance of what’s, what’s the target market, who’s actually interacting with it. You know, and I think there’s areas where it’s a skin over it too, but it makes it good for teams to collaborate and work together. Whereas, you know, there’s some sharing available in chat GPT, but maybe it’s not quite what a team is looking for yet.

[00:04:29] Matt Tonkin: There’s a few benefits, but I definitely see, you know, where are those going to be in six months?

[00:04:36] Joe Peters: Yeah, and if you are one of those platforms, you’ve got to keep on innovating. Staying still is not a real option right now. And if you’re. Based on sort of a structure around three p gpt 3. 5 You’re gonna be in trouble

[00:04:56] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, cuz it does if the results aren’t as good.

[00:04:59] Matt Tonkin: It doesn’t matter how [00:05:00] clean it is, right?

[00:05:01] Joe Peters: Yeah, and what kind of moat do you have? There’s zero moat in that situation. So well, I think we’ll continue to see Some shakedowns, which is very normal. When we start to have further adoption of technology, there’s usually a consolidation and different companies dropping off, but we’re starting to see a few that we’re raising our eyebrows will be fair and won’t name any names, but we’re seeing a few that were like, Hmm, I’m not sure what you’ve got under the hood here, but it doesn’t seem like very much.

[00:05:40] Joe Peters: All right. Well, let’s move on Matt question for you. How are your fortune telling skills?

[00:05:50] Matt Tonkin: Very, very bad, Joe. I think I think in the early tens, I thought I was gonna, you know, grab some Bitcoin and I’m like, eh, whatever. I don’t, I don’t need it right now. I think I looked like if I’d put like a hundred bucks in that, it would have been good for me, but so, so bad to say the least, but maybe a bit better for from talking about mark marketing operations, then financial advice.

[00:06:14] Matt Tonkin: Right.

[00:06:14] Joe Peters: Right. Or predicting your hockey teams winning seasons and things

[00:06:18] Matt Tonkin: like that. I can predict that. I can predict that.

[00:06:24] Joe Peters: That’ll be a, we, we can have a whole other episode on that altogether. Yeah. Matt, unfortunately is a Maple Leafs fan and you know, we have a little bit of a problem with that from time to time. However, Let’s stick to the script here. The next generation of marketing operations, AI has enabled teams to carry out marketing automation functions in no code, low code situations, which is really bringing about less dependence on IT teams.

[00:06:54] Joe Peters: So Matt, do you think that coding is still a necessary skill in mops? And will it [00:07:00] be that way in five years from now?

[00:07:02] Matt Tonkin: So, it’s interesting because this… Implies that it has been a necessary skill and while it’s definitely a Important skill and I think for career growth and just troubleshooting on your own.

[00:07:15] Matt Tonkin: It’s definitely important I think a lot of people in mobs can get by with maybe rudimentary knowledge of it But that’s not to say it’s not really important and can grow. So is
it still necessary? I’d say if you want to you know, not have to be Investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in developer agencies or things like that.

[00:07:37] Matt Tonkin: Yes. Definitely is, but I think the idea of it will, it still be in five years comes down to more where you get your code from how, how it comes to you. So is coding still necessary? I used to go to, you know, different sites and like, how do you do this? And whatever CSS or Python, whatever I’m doing [00:08:00] now, you can go to chat, GPT, and it’s giving you the code, but.

[00:08:05] Matt Tonkin: It’s not usually perfect. So for me, the key is. Will being able to code still be necessary in five years for mobs? Yes and no code literacy, being able to read the code and understand what it’s trying to do and at least modify it. That’s where I found myself lately is, you know, I’ll ask for something that spits it out.

[00:08:27] Matt Tonkin: And I can at least understand what it’s doing and when something goes wrong, I can troubleshoot it and say like, oh, okay, I can, I can see why this isn’t working. Maybe I wouldn’t have been able to write it from scratch easy, but I can at least understand what’s happening. And I think that’s the important, important part is the literacy of it.

[00:08:45] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, I think we’re seeing

[00:08:46] Joe Peters: that in everything. If you’re just in a situation where you have zero background information or context, GPT may seem like a genius, but you don’t have anything to filter that

[00:09:00] against. But what I found when you actually have any in depth knowledge around a topic, whether that’s coding or an issue or a technology, and you ask GPT around it, you’re going to need to fine tune it.

[00:09:16] Joe Peters: And it’s going to maybe be 80, 90 percent right. But it still requires a little bit of work on your part. And that’s no different with the coding. You need to have a foundation there if you’re going to be able to build upon what’s being generated

[00:09:31] Matt Tonkin: for you. Yeah. You don’t know what you don’t know. It’s the same with anything, right?

[00:09:35] Matt Tonkin: The idea of hallucinations within. Chat GPT if you don’t know what you’re asking it You have no idea if it’s actually hallucinating or not, but you know, yes get a random history question It’s like I don’t think we went to the moon in 1420 or whatever the case you can write you You know like now that’s that’s not quite right and you can say are you sure and they’ll be like my apologies.

[00:09:59] Matt Tonkin: You’re correct I’m wrong and that sort of thing. So whether that gets less important as The models are refined and things get better that that’s a possibility.

[00:10:11] Joe Peters: Yeah, I do see some of the things that people are talking about with the next iteration to GPT 5. That they’re really working on the hallucination issue in particular, listen, these are early days.

[00:10:29] Joe Peters: We’re coming up on the very first days of or the first anniversary of GPT three being released to the world. So we’re, we’re not even in a year yet, and we’ve already seen some amazing progress. So we’ll, we’ll continue to see that. All right. Let’s move on to what is quickly becoming one of my favorite parts of the podcast, which is our community question.

[00:10:56] Joe Peters: So thanks to Mike Rizzo and [00:11:00] marketingops. com for allowing us to dive into a question from the community there. So this week, Matt, our question is. What in your opinion are the most common pitfalls that companies make when building out their mops function?

[00:11:17] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, this one’s an interesting one for me Because I think it can kind of go to two ends of the spectrum before the biggest pitfalls and one would be over Overly siloed and not siloed enough.

[00:11:32] Matt Tonkin: And what I mean by that is a lot of times when you’re building out the marketing operations function and marketing in general, it’s sort of a, an attachment to sales or an afterthought. And you know, it’s. It’s not really contributing in the way you’d think of a true revenue operations setup where marketing collaborates with sales, collaborates with customer service.

[00:11:55] Matt Tonkin: So I think sometimes it can just kind of be forgotten about, and [00:12:00] you know, you may be hire someone who’s really junior and, Hey, I shouldn’t say anything. Cause I told you earlier in the podcast that that’s essentially how I got into mops, right. As I got thrown in and said, Hey, figure this out. But that’s probably not the best way to do it, even though I think it’s how a lot of mobs people develop now.

[00:12:17] Matt Tonkin: It goes back to, you know, what’s that new generation look like? And I think that’s building out a cohesive rev ups where, you know, everyone’s working together. That doesn’t mean that you can’t have some separation for marketing to, you know, get their own tools that are going to work for them. But it’s about that collaboration while still knowing what job is being done.

[00:12:39] Matt Tonkin: So that’s sort of where I’d, I’d go with it. Yeah. It’s

[00:12:43] Joe Peters: amazing to me when I speak to different people in different industries, I feel like B2B SaaS and B2B tech, I’ve really figured out the concept of RevOps and the idea of having that even at the, we can even exclude customer success for the time being, but just that sync up between sales and marketing and how it can be so much better than it has been historically.

[00:13:13] Joe Peters: When you, when you build that concept out in the organization and we see it so much on, on a daily basis, because that’s what we’re living and breathing, but it’s still a foreign concept to a lot of organizations, but I also think there’s a maturity that happens. Not only in thinking about the structure and building out the teams but also as the organization evolves itself.

[00:13:39] Joe Peters: So if it’s, you know, moving from. Mid market to, you know, to large size, mid market to the beginnings of enterprise, there’s going to be an evolution in a shift in the building out of the team, just as a function of scale too.

[00:13:57] Matt Tonkin: Definitely. And it’s so hard to like plan for that sort of growth, right. To say like, okay, we just need this right now, but we want to build a team or build a tech stack us to scale and it’s really hard.

[00:14:12] Joe Peters: think smart organizations can do that if they have. A question say, Matt, what does a five year growth plan, if we’re doubling every two and a half years, then you can start to think about that. I thought there was an interesting post by Daryl Alfonso last week on three tiers of marketing operation structures showing from.

[00:14:38] Joe Peters: Kind of the smaller SMB moving up to enterprise and how that cascades out. And obviously he had an ideal structure there, but I think that actually there are routes for people to think through and consider as you’re building out your teams.

[00:14:55] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, and I think that’s all about having that experience early on so you know, like, [00:15:00] okay, here’s If we’re going to grow like this, this is how we have to prep.

[00:15:04] Matt Tonkin: This is, you know, in five years, this is who we need. This is what we need. We don’t need it now, but we need to know how we get there. And some

[00:15:12] Joe Peters: of them are just really great additions, like let’s add some analytics capability into our team so that, you know, we can do some really good custom reports and make some great strategic decisions that from the data that were presented with.

[00:15:27] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, and that goes back to the whole RevOps, tying that together. Everyone can use that data.

[00:15:33] Joe Peters: Yeah. Anyway, we could spend a whole podcast just on that, but let’s move, let’s move along here and like to thank our sponsor Knack for sponsoring today’s episode. Knack is the no code platform that allows you to build campaigns in minutes.

[00:15:50] Joe Peters: Stop wasting time and money on hand coded templates. Visit knack. com to learn more. That’s K N A K. com. [00:16:00] All right, well, we’re moving on to our hot takes. Thanks. Section of the podcast and the first question is your mops team ready for a I before deciding on which tools to ask. Ask if your team is ready.

[00:16:17] Joe Peters: And this is a Forbes article had three questions. I’m going to read those out so that we can tackle them all. Do we have an experimentation and feedback loop process in our organization? Question one. Do we have the right data and quality for implementing a generative AI project? That’s two. Do we have the right team with the skills and mindset to work on the next AI project?

[00:16:43] Joe Peters: That’s the last one. What are your thoughts here, Matt?

[00:16:46] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, number one, so like the experimentation and feedback loop. Is interesting to me because I think it covers that idea of, you know, you probably have a lot of team members who are already playing around with this. So it’s not like, it’s not like you need to get people going on this.

[00:17:04] Matt Tonkin: People are going to find it just on their own and play around. But a lot of people just aren’t thinking about this in their day to day work life. So how can you capitalize on that? How can you, you know, understand what they’re doing and share that? I know I’ve had conversations with our team members where they say something about what they’re doing with chat GPT.

[00:17:22] Matt Tonkin: And I’m like, I didn’t even know you could do that. There’s a plugin for reading full PDFs. And I’ve been like copy and pasting like bit by bit and saying like, okay, just. Let me finish pasting these four lines because you can’t read more than 2, 000 characters or whatever. And there was a thing I could do the whole time and save time.

[00:17:40] Matt Tonkin: So just having that conversation and iterative process and tying that in with you know, business goals apart from just whatever personal goals people are doing.

[00:17:52] Joe Peters: Yeah, I think the more we can think in use cases and defining it that way and drilling down, I think it can [00:18:00] really help organizations advanced their AI adoption.

[00:18:05] Joe Peters: But I like this, that second question around the right data and quality for implementing a generative AI project. Matt, before there was even AI. We’ve been working with dirty data and helping our clients solve that issues for a long time. So. It’s no different here, but maybe it’s more important than ever to help resolve some of these data issues, especially around quality when you’re looking at what your opportunities are moving forward.

[00:18:39] Matt Tonkin: Exactly. The dirty data is a huge thing we talk about all the time and the concept of right data. I think AI. But.

[00:18:53] Matt Tonkin: The stuff that you’re trying to use to populate the model. You never recorded it because it never [00:19:00] occurred to you that it would be useful. So if suddenly you’re, you have this great idea, but you don’t have the data, how do you get it as quickly as possible? But getting it as quickly as possible could be something that skews it too.

[00:19:13] Matt Tonkin: Right? So unfortunately, if you didn’t have that foresight a year ago to be collecting certain things, it might be a bit harder. But hopefully you have. That data and it was clean enough to, you know, get whatever project you have now. Right, right.

[00:19:30] Joe Peters: And then I think this last question of teams and skills, I think the number one skill that people need to have right now is getting GPT, getting the pro version, and trying to work it into your workflows, for one.

[00:19:51] Joe Peters: But then once you move beyond that and start to think of the other skills, I don’t know, I start to think of the [00:20:00] analytical needs as being kind of that next step in the, in the evolution. What are, what are your thoughts here? Yeah,

[00:20:07] Matt Tonkin: I think to your point when you said like getting started, that I would say curiosity, just like have fun with it.

[00:20:14] Matt Tonkin: Get in there and yeah, once you start seeing what. It can put out. I, I think that’s when some of those, like triggering moments in your brain happen and say like, okay, if it can do this you know, what can I, what can I learn from it? What can it, you know, understand that maybe I’m not seeing here? And you start to get some of those thoughts.

[00:20:33] Matt Tonkin: I think that’s, that’s the mindset is just playing around. And then take the things that you’ve done with it. And see where you can apply that to other problems you’re having. Make a note of what problems you’re having randomly through your week. And then go back and say, okay, how could I tackle this in an easier way?

[00:20:54] Joe Peters: I’m a strong believer that intellectual curiosity is a superpower, and if you have [00:21:00] that, it’s only going to serve to benefit you, not only in general work environments, but as we enter into this generative AI era, you really have got to try, be able to, be willing to try things out and experiment a little bit.

[00:21:18] Matt Tonkin: To your point there, it’s because curiosity can be a natural thing that you have, but I think we can train ourselves to be curious. So if you don’t have that, you know, innate drive to play around with stuff, it’s something you can do. It’s something you can get in the mindset and push yourself to do.

[00:21:35] Joe Peters: And it goes back to, I’ll never forget, one of the first projects I ever worked on as a consultant in starting my own agency many, many years ago was on the Canadian geospatial data infrastructure.

[00:21:52] Joe Peters: Now, just being intellectually curious [00:22:00] allowed me to be fascinated by that. And so you can take two things, two approaches. Either you’re going to think, Oh, some of the things that I’m doing are boring. But if you dive into any topic. And you can find what’s interesting and what the problem they’re solving for on anything.

[00:22:17] Joe Peters:: That intellectual curiosity is a real superpower. And I think you’re right, Matt. It’s something that you can develop and nurture over time. But if you take that and nurture it, it’s only going to serve you well throughout your entire career. I know that it’s, it’s allowed me to not only learn about things like the CGDI, But also, you know, I had McCain’s as a client one time, I know an awful lot about potatoes.

[00:22:48] Joe Peters: So anyway, let’s move on to the next one. But I really am a strong believer in intellectual curiosity. And I think by nurturing that right now, it’s the perfect [00:23:00] time to just. Get out there and try and experiment. It’s going to pay dividends 1 million percent. Okay. Let’s move on to our second hot take. What personal info would you give away for a good deal?

[00:23:12] Joe Peters: So this is something published in ad week and it’s bonkers and mind blowing from a variety of different perspectives, but. It was a survey of 2000 adult consumers and respondents largely did not trust AI advertising. That is not a surprise because most people don’t have a really good understanding of AI and AI has become the villain.

[00:23:34] Joe Peters: And we talked about this a couple of times on the podcast even if you’re going to see mission impossible, the latest one, the villain is AI now. So we’re, we’re, we’re seeing that everywhere. But. So the trust part is not a real surprise here, but it gets interesting when 87 percent said that they would disclose personal info to save the money.

[00:23:59] Joe Peters: Now, listen to [00:24:00] some of these numbers here, Matt, 52 percent would share their birthday to get a discount. 43 percent would share the name of their spouse to get a discount. 36 would share the names of their children to get a discount. But this last one is mind blowing. 34 percent would share their social security number to get a discount.

[00:24:29] Joe Peters: Oh, this is face palm.

[00:24:33] Matt Tonkin: That’s crazy. And I’m, I’m hyper cynical. I’m like sharing it. Like when I go to. The website for a brewery. I like I put in a fake birthday and I’m legally like, there’s no reason to do it, but I still do that. Right? Like I had just naturally cynical about sharing information, I guess.

[00:24:54] Matt Tonkin: The fact that someone would share their social security number, [00:25:00] you’re right, like it takes the words out of your mouth for, for any reason to get a discount on something.

[00:25:09] Joe Peters: It’s the ramifications of having that data out there in the wild. You know, we live in this era where big corporations are hacked constantly.

[00:25:21] Joe Peters: I would never trust anyone outside of a government entity with that information because the government entity requires you to share that information, to do an exchange, whether it’s your taxes or anything, but the idea of giving, I don’t know, home Depot or target your social security number. To do a transaction and not that home Depot or target we’re asking.

[00:25:48] Joe Peters: This is just a theoretical. We don’t want them coming after us because we did not say that, but anyway, we did, we, they did not start this. This is just an example. I can’t even wrap my head around

[00:26:01] Matt Tonkin: that. And it brings to the forefront too. And this, I know is external for me. This is just stuff people would do, but as things like scams get more evolved, right?

[00:26:15] Matt Tonkin: That, that’s the, that’s the dark side. And. You know, that, that this many people are willing just to give away very personal information for, you know, 10 bucks off of whatever, some shampoo right. It, it, it’s concerning for me just from a, you know, economic standpoint, how much money is scamming than already is.

[00:26:40] Joe Peters: No, and I think of the older members of my family and the scams are just getting better and better and when you think of things like voice synthesis and All of those things it’s just gonna get More and more difficult to understand what [00:27:00] is real and what is fake and what is a scam and what is an obligation?

[00:27:04] Joe Peters: That you have to do. So yeah, this one is a little bit mind blowing. It reminds me of another thing that came out last week So Matt had a meeting with rewind. io, but there was another rewind. ai that was making big waves last week with this pendant. So a necklace with a little pendant, maybe the size of, I don’t know, a tip of a Sharpie pen, maybe even smaller.

[00:27:35] Joe Peters: Not the tip, but maybe the cap. All right. Maybe half of a cap, if you’re trying to think in scale here, maybe an inch or so. Anyway, it was a microphone recordable device. And so the idea is that you wear this pendant all day long. It records. All of your interactions, it’s, it’s listening to what’s happening during the conversations that you have, and then gives you a summary of your day, Matt

[00:28:04] Matt Tonkin: So this is, this is a Black Mirror episode. That’s a Black Mirror episode, 100%. And it’s funny because, you know, you said what what’d you say? 87 percent of people are, you know, skeptical of AI and advertising. Yeah, these are this is why and I can see the crazy thing is I can see the benefit right like for sure There’s so much benefit to that, you know, but your mind gets going on all the little things like where’s where’s this being stored?

[00:28:36] Matt Tonkin: What’s it being used? To you know to train what’s it being used to sell to me? Right, so there’s so many things

[00:28:45] Joe Peters: wrong with it. Yeah Like like, okay, even if you think of personal romantic conversations that you’re having

[00:28:57] Matt Tonkin: Medical whatever you’re doing first dates. [00:29:00]

[00:29:00] Joe Peters: Yeah, or I don’t know maybe have bio parts of the day I’ve recorded, like, it’s so, it’s so over the top. I, I can’t even, I don’t even know where to start with it.

[00:29:16] Matt Tonkin: And just not, you know, Having control of that, even if you had that, even if it was a closed system and it’s just going back to your own private server, that is so much information out there that could get out there, but for it to be stored on some.

[00:29:31] Matt Tonkin: Server in Palo Alto or something, you know, it’s a little

[00:29:38] Joe Peters: concern. That’s one thing, but like, what are you going to wear a big consent button? Do you consent? Yeah, allow me to record this all day long?

[00:29:47] Matt Tonkin: Like. A lot of places are two party consents. So that’s another factor, right? I can’t see this.

[00:29:54] Matt Tonkin: Not triggering legislative action from most countries.

[00:30:00] Joe Peters: Well, there was a pretty big backlash, but there’s going to be people that use it. Anyway, it’s been a crazy week. It seems like every week is a crazy week, but let’s get down to our final section of the podcast, which is our pairing section. So this week I have a special album.

[00:30:23] Joe Peters: Near and dear to my heart one of my favorite bands. Well, let’s not just say one of my favorite bands. It is my favorite band And there’s a couple of indicators of this one There’s this piece of art right here that you can’t see if you’re listening to the podcast.

[00:30:40] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, we’ve got to keep that in mind,

[00:30:43] Joe Peters: Is some sound wave art, from a song by interpol. Okay, so interpol is a band My favorite band, seen them too many times to admit. This is some art in the background that’s showing Sound Wafer, probably their [00:31:00] most familiar song. It’s called Evil. It has a really great baseline to start the song. And then there’s a little photo just to the left of the art, which is of Paul Banks, the singer singing at a concert that was at a snap that pick there.

[00:31:19] Joe Peters: But. Our song this week comes from the album Marauder, which is a really great album. For those watching this, you can see the album art here. classic black and white Interpol, but and for those of you that have never heard of them or never seen them. They’re always wearing like Armani suits On stage playing indie rock like that’s kind of their brand.

[00:31:49] Joe Peters: To Really kind of go a little bit over the top on the dress and really not a lot of fan Action either like hello. We’re gonna play our set. That was a [00:32:00] great song and move on One of my favorite vinyl records in terms of the color, this sort of deep red album, Marauder, and the song that we’re playing this week is If You Really Love Nothing.

[00:32:19] Joe Peters: This is this is one of their singles right off this album. And it’s just a great album. Beginning to end. So, anyway, this is a soft spot for me, Interpol, and a great record, and a great production of the vinyl in that deep red. Matt, what are we pairing it with, with the

[00:32:39] Matt Tonkin: beverage this week? So, pairing it with the beverage this weekend.

[00:32:44] Matt Tonkin: Oh, that, that actually sounded good. I, I’ve, you always hear that like cracking, so I think that sounds like a Bob and Doug McKenzie. Yeah, I think the the audio only people got a treat there, . So for this week we have Muskoka detour. So [00:33:00] this is always my. Go to go to beer, I guess you could say, like, if, if I’m just going to be stuck with one beer, this would be the beer I have.

[00:33:08] Matt Tonkin: It’s light. It tastes like a bit of hoppiness, but it’s sort of that summer beer for me. And it’s even got the Muskoka or Adirondack chair, whatever your. Whatever terminology you use for those nice, those wooden chairs, that you’d be sitting on a deck, yep, sitting on a deck, just having this. And that, so for me, it’s, I’d say this is my like safe space beer.

[00:33:31] Matt Tonkin: It’s, you know, what I’m comfortable with. So getting into, we’re getting into more cold. It’s been cold here all week. So now I’m looking into, you know, all right, my summer beer’s gone. I need to get out of my safe space. Just like everything else AI tech, whatever. So

[00:33:49] Joe Peters: that sounds delicious. I’m going to have to add that to the list and I did find.

[00:33:57] Joe Peters: A small case, or it was like an [00:34:00] eight pack of speaking of beverages and fairly delicious, although there’s been some negative reviews, I did find the Coke AI drink. Okay. And I got an eight pack, like of the little. 300 milliliters. Sorry for us friends. I have no idea what that is in ounces, 10 ounces, something like that.

[00:34:24] Joe Peters: I did, I did have it over the weekend and it was, it was not bad. Okay. I liked

[00:34:29] Matt Tonkin: it. I still haven’t seen it. So I’ll, I’ll keep an eye out for it. Cause I want to, we’ll have to do a taste

[00:34:34] Joe Peters: test. On our next one. I think it’s a lot easier to find. I’ll give you some tips. It took me a little while to research it, but it’s available.

[00:34:43] Joe Peters: But anyway, well, thanks Matt for a great podcast this week. And thanks to all of you for listening. Be sure to subscribe, rate, and review. You can find us on Spotify, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Google Podcasts. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn by [00:35:00] joining our newsletter or using the link in the description.

[00:35:03] Joe Peters: And as always, thanks mom for watching. See you later, everyone.