On our second episode of “Launch Codes,” Matt Tonkin (Sr. Director) returns from illness to join our CEO, Joe Peters, as they have an important conversation on how organizations can adapt to the evolution of AI. Matt and Joe also discuss some interesting topics from their time at INBOUND 2023 together, answer a MOPs community question, and more!


Listen Below


Episode Summary

The AI Evolution Model

One important thing that Joe’s been obsessed with lately is the “AI evolution model” and what it means for organizations – specifically, how organizations are going to adopt AI, when they’ll adopt AI, and what that adoption will actually look like in practical terms. This model is represented below, where there are two trends: “Benefit to Organizations” and “Risk to Organizations” over time. The “AI Tipping Point” is where the benefits of AI innovations start to outweigh the risk, signaling the right moment for companies to go all-in.

Ai Chat

Imagine you’re a CMO of a large enterprise. When it comes to AI, you might be thinking about several things such as privacy, experimentation, guidelines, or even the general AI literacy of your team. But the next step is to think about preparation: How should you prepare your data as the “AI Tipping Point” gets closer?

This is an important question to consider right now, because with how quickly AI is currently changing and advancing, it’s too early for organizations to make a major call on which LLM to fully invest in. Open AI’s ChatGPT, Google’s Bard, Meta’s LLaMA, etc. are all competing viciously with continuous improvements over each other. So in the meantime, companies need to focus on preparing their data so it can be used for training the eventual LLM they choose down the road.

Matt also raises a great point that the conversation around data preparation isn’t exclusive to AI. So many teams get excited about a new CRM or MAP that will magically solve their problems, but it won’t be effective if their data isn’t properly prepared to use it. And this ties back to the longstanding topic of data privacy, dirty data, and other data-related challenges companies continue to face as well.


INBOUND 2023: The Future of Content

Matt and Joe discuss a topic that came up several times at INBOUND 2023 a few weeks ago which was: Will AI replace our jobs? And if it does, what does that mean for us? One quote that stood out at the event was “AI will take your job and give you a better one”.

Both agree that AI will certainly take jobs – and this is particularly evident in the media and journalism space already. When it comes to giving people “better jobs”, Matt and Joe interpret this more as the “improvement” of jobs; as AI can automate repetitive tasks and speed up our work so we have more time for creativity and innovation. One of the Jasper representative’s at INBOUND commented on this sentiment as well, asking the audience what they will do with all the freed-up time AI gives back to us.

They also discuss a session on the “Pyramid of Content” model, which essentially illustrates the different levels of content creation quality: low-effort content on the bottom, good content in the middle, and revolutionary content at the top. Joe predicts a surge of low-effort, lazy content through the use of AI, which will further emphasize the importance of ground-breaking, original content. Matt mostly agreed, but believes AI will nearly eliminate the lowest tier and expand the middle tier of content quality.


MarketingOps.com Community Question

MarketingOps.com, created by Mike Rizzo, is an amazing community that we are huge fans of. One of the questions from a community member there was: “Do you have any tips on how we can reduce the number of failed syncs”?

Matt answered this question primarily from a Marketo-Salesforce perspective, but it’s a pretty platform-agnostic solution. One standout point was that while there are never going to be zero sync errors, it’s important for Marketo users to pay attention to their notification panel to stay on top of errors before they build up – specifically formalizing who is in charge of this is important. This is quite a deep topic that Matt explores much further in the episode – be sure to take a listen!


Hot Takes


Read The Transcript

Disclaimer: This transcript was created by AI using Descript and has not been edited.

[00:00:00] Joe Peters: Welcome to Launch Codes, the podcast about mops, AI, and more. Each week you’re going to hear from experts and they’re going to share their insights, stories, and strategies with you.

[00:00:16] Joe Peters: Welcome to episode two. I’m your host, Joe Peters, and today I have my colleague, Senior Director, Matt Tonkin here. And, uh, Matt, what are you excited about us covering today?

[00:00:29] Matt Tonkin: So I think most for me is talking about HubSpot Inbound, um, and some of the things that went on there. It’s been a little bit, uh, we’re a little bit out from there now.

[00:00:38] Matt Tonkin: Unfortunately, uh, I was sick last week, so I wasn’t able to record with you. Um, so I’ve had some time to sort of digest this and think about this. So I’m pretty excited about that. And then, um, Towards the end, we’re gonna be doing some pairings that you and I have, uh, provided. So I, I’m excited to share that there, but I’ll, I’ll leave the surprise out for that.

[00:00:56] Joe Peters: Awesome. Some of those pairings are not good for your waistline either. , never . Anyway. Okay. So we’re gonna talk about a few things today. Uh, first this AI evolution model that I’m a little bit obsessed with and get, gonna get Matt’s take on things. Um, We’re going to also answer some questions from, uh, the mops community.

[00:01:21] Joe Peters: So a question for Matt to tackle. We’re not putting him on the spot. He’s got a chance. He’s had a chance to review it in advance. And then there are some headlines around AI and marketing, and we’re going to. Cover those at the end in our sort of rapid fire section of the podcast. So let’s get started.

[00:01:43] Joe Peters: One of the things that I’ve been slightly obsessed with is the AI evolution model within organizations. And what I mean by that is how organizations are going to adopt AI and when they’re going to adopt, uh, adopt AI and what that’s going to look like. So. If we really think about it and take it from an organization’s perspective.

[00:02:08] Joe Peters: So imagine I’m a CMO of a large enterprise. I’ve got a lot of things to think about right now in terms of when and what we’re doing with AI. So right now, I might be thinking about things like privacy, um, experimentation, maybe some guidelines and principles. Uh, I might be thinking of. Governance or the general AI literacy of my team, kind of think about those and kind of that experimentation mode, but I think the next preoccupation that I’m a little bit obsessed about is with is the whole area of.

[00:02:52] Joe Peters: Um, preparation and how data needs to be prepared moving into this AI adoption phase, because no one’s making a big call right now that they’re going to go deep into chat GPT or the open AI model, or they’re going to go with Google or they’re going to go with cohair or any of the other providers that are making Splashes right now, but it’s, it’s, what are you doing right now to get prepared?

[00:03:22] Joe Peters: What do you, what do you think about that, Matt?

[00:03:24] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, it’s interesting because that, that’s sort of this topic. That’s not unique to AI, right? We, we keep hearing that like data preparedness, data preparedness. Um, the cliche phrase is garbage in garbage out. And it’s interesting to think like, how does that apply to AI?

[00:03:41] Matt Tonkin: Because I’ve sort of seen this in the past with other tools, where I think a lot of people think, you know, this is just going to solve all your problems. Um, this tool A comes in and, you know, great, we’re going to use this and you see the demo and everything. And the reality when you get it set up is that if you didn’t plan for it and prep for it, it’s not going to work how you expect.

[00:04:03] Matt Tonkin: And I see a lot of similarity, I think, in AI and these tools. I think a lot of people think like it’s going to solve everything off the bat. And. AI probably has a lot more flexibility in being able to counter for some of that dirty data and the junk stuff in there. But I can definitely see like, if, if what you have in your systems that you’re feeding into this tool isn’t useful, it’s not going to be able to give you the results you want.

[00:04:32] Joe Peters: Exactly. And, and We’ve been talking about dirty data

[00:04:36] Matt Tonkin: for years,

[00:04:38] Joe Peters: if not, if not even a decade now, uh, pretty much since, um, marketing operations, uh, started coming into play, we’ve been dealing with data challenges. And so. I really think that for organizations to get their house in order as it pertains to their data, you know, whether that’s cleaning and preprocessing or figuring out your data warehousing play, like, where’s this all going, um, What does that look like for real time, uh, processing or batch processing?

[00:05:14] Joe Peters: Like, how is this all being thought through? So when you’re doing your AI adoption and starting to train your own LLM, let’s say, what are you training it with? And what’s the state of readiness that you have right now in either marketing operations or marketing writ large. If you’re that CMO of a mid market or enterprise organization.

[00:05:39] Matt Tonkin: Definitely. And, and with that dirty data, a huge part of that is always scaling is always, you know, you can have clean data at one size, but how do you get that growth? And with AI, whatever form of growth you’re going to have is exponentially bigger. So it, it just heightens that, that if you can start with something early and get, get that structure in place, you’re, you’re going to be well ahead.

[00:06:04] Joe Peters: Exactly. And, you know, We’ve been dealing with data privacy for a long time and, you know, international standards, whether it’s, um, uh, you know, whether it’s European or North American, uh, standards, uh, how many of those, uh, uh, how many of those, um, preference centers have we set up?

[00:06:29] Matt Tonkin: Exactly right. And there’s so many, so many variations and being able to standardize for global organizations is.

[00:06:38] Matt Tonkin: I mean, it keeps us in business. Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:41] Joe Peters: But you know, whether it’s GDPR and, and we can only expect, and while they probably are lagging out, there are going to be new data privacy standards that are going to come into play. 100%. Uh, Whether it’s pertaining to personal information or to copyright information, there’s gonna be a whole legal switch here, too.

[00:07:06] Joe Peters: So keeping your ear to the ground as a as a CMO is also gonna be important here, but I think that idea of data privacy is probably over indexed right now from reality because it’s always a thing and people don’t want everything trained with. Uh, you know, there are confidential proprietary information, but imagine you’re training your own private LLM, then, you know, you’re not as concerned there, but there’s still going to be challenges and issues you need to think through as it pertains to privacy and what you’re training with.

[00:07:39] Matt Tonkin: Yeah. That’s a good point in that, you know, these are new issues. These are things that companies have already been fighting and battling with, um, internal private information, whether it’s, you know, fear of cybersecurity attacks or things like that. That doesn’t, the core concept doesn’t change. It’s just how, how you’re using the tools and how you’re protecting yourself.

[00:08:01] Matt Tonkin: Right.

[00:08:02] Joe Peters: I, one of the things that I’m kind of slightly obsessed with, and we have a little chart here that there’ll be a few blogs coming out of this over the next little while, is this idea of, if you think of, uh, uh, uh, you know, a simple chart where you have your X access and let’s just pretend your X access is.

[00:08:24] Joe Peters: So change over time, and then your Y access is an increase in AI innovation. And then if you were plotting on that risks and benefits, um, you know, you could imagine that benefits are going to increase over time with increases in innovation, that’s kind of like a pretty easy thing to follow and you would.

[00:08:44] Joe Peters: Presuppose that if we’re going to have the exponential growth in AI innovation that everyone is pretending that risks might start high, but they can’t actually move at that same exponential level for an organization. So when we have that tipping point, where the benefits and the risks cross, and then you’re moving into a.

[00:09:05] Joe Peters: Place where the benefits are really outweighing, um, the, the risks to the organization. That’s going to be that sweet spot. That’s going to be that tipping point for each organization to consider, but to, and, and I think this is like wrapping a bow on this here. If you have your data ready. Then, when you want to take advantage of those benefits, when you see those innovations that are directly going to improve your, your operations or your outcome for your organization, you’re ready to go.

[00:09:40] Matt Tonkin: Do you think that for each organization too, there might be multiple of those same charts that, you know, but for different purposes for, you know, average employees, like the just asking questions into chat GTP? There’s a certain level of risk to that, sure, but it’s much lower than maybe full on implementation of a very large native LLM or something like that.

[00:10:03] Matt Tonkin: So there’s almost like you’re going to have to look at that from so many different perspectives as well. Yeah,

[00:10:10] Joe Peters: but if you think of like something like whether it’s Google’s duet for the Google work space or Microsoft copilot, whenever that comes out and you’re. You know, you’re 1000 person, 2000 person organization, and you’re going to decide to turn on 30, 40, 50 a seat per month, AI integration into your suite, those are going to be, those are going to be the big questions, like, who’s ready, that’s just a training and literacy and people being ready for it that way, that’s not even thinking about, Using it, creating your own LLM or anything like that.

[00:10:50] Joe Peters: Anyway, we can, as Matt knows, we can talk about

[00:10:54] Matt Tonkin: AI forever. Joe can talk about AI literally forever.

[00:10:59] Joe Peters: All right. Let’s just slide into our second segment here on, you know, continuing our train of thought on, on AI. But Matt, what were some of the. Big things that you took away from inbound now that we have you on the podcast.

[00:11:16] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, glad to glad to actually be able to share my thoughts on it a bit later than I expected, but happy to be doing it now. Um, I mean, first and foremost, continuing from what we were talking about before, everyone said just get using AI. Um, so. Obviously, that’s sort of the key thing, but I think, I think one of the things that came up was this concept of will AI replace our jobs and, you know, if, if it does, what’s that going to look like?

[00:11:48] Matt Tonkin: Um, it’s a natural fear for, I think a lot of people, especially creators to think, you know, suddenly, is this machine doing my job better? And that’s, that’s not a new fear, right? That’s been going on for centuries. Um, and. The quote that I think really stood out to me was AI will take your job and give you a better one

[00:12:10] Joe Peters: Yeah, dude, I don’t know about that one.

[00:12:12] Joe Peters: What do you think?

[00:12:12] Matt Tonkin: Well, I know you and I have had a different read on that and I’ve had some time to think about it And I mean, I think the first part AI will take at least will take jobs I don’t know if we can say your job and your job and be so granular with it But I think that’s fair right? AI is going to take jobs And we’re already seeing it

[00:12:32] Joe Peters: in the journalism space, right?

[00:12:34] Joe Peters: So when, when people are like, Oh, AI isn’t taking as many jobs as we thought, well, then talk to some media organizations and people who are working there and see what they think about that.

[00:12:48] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, it’s, it is, it is going to take jobs. So I think the, the part where it’s open for argument is this, is it going to give you a better job or is it at least going to make your job better?

[00:13:00] Matt Tonkin: And, and this idea of how you use a AI to make your job better and not lose out. Um, and one of the, oh, sorry Joe, I think you were going to say. No, you know, like

[00:13:12] Joe Peters: I think, I think the one thing that you’re, you’re, you’re getting at here that I really like is. It can make your job better by doing maybe some of the repetitive things that you don’t like doing or, or some of the heavy lifting things, uh, that we all have to do sometimes.

[00:13:28] Joe Peters: And I think that that’s the case, but remember we heard that other presentation where I think it was a woman from Jasper and it was one of the more profound, um, statements in, in the sessions that I attended, she said, okay, it’s going to free up more time. Yeah. Uh, maybe making your job better because you don’t have to do all these repetitive things, but what are you going to do with your free time?

[00:13:53] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, yeah, that was, that was huge, right? And that’s, that’s so clear. If suddenly a task that used to take you eight hours is suddenly taking you two, you have that six hours to do, to do what? That’s the question, right? That’s the big question is, is it to do more of what you’re just doing? Is it to find a way to make what you’re doing better?

[00:14:16] Matt Tonkin: Um. The way it really tied and resonated with me, um, was when I actually went to the HubSpot booth and saw some of the demos of the new AI, um, you know, generating content on landing pages. And I flashed back to, let’s not date myself too much, but I flashed back to when I was actually essentially a one man marketing team for a small startup.

[00:14:37] Matt Tonkin: You know, I was going to trade shows for them. I was running the HubSpot instance. I was running Google AdWords. Ends. Thinking about getting a campaign out the door, building the emails, building all this content, and that would take me, you know, several days, and it’s a one man team, and it’s like, the end of the week, I’m like, yay, I got this one campaign out the door.

[00:14:57] Matt Tonkin: To think that I could probably have done all that work if I had the HubSpot AI stuff that is coming out now, I could have done that in a couple hours, and then how much more I could have done. How much, you know, I could have done to expand on that. That really took me back. Thinking, okay, I’m not just executing emails anymore.

[00:15:20] Matt Tonkin: What, what’s that same wow moment except in my current role? Um, and that’s something I still need to figure out.

[00:15:27] Joe Peters: I think one of the things that we’re going to see is, and this was kind of easy to predict, is the tsunami of content that we’re going to be, uh, exposed to. So, if it’s easy for everyone to generate it, Say in your HubSpot instance and, uh, your campaign assistant is helping you generate your emails, your landing pages,
and your ads.

[00:15:52] Joe Peters: Well, okay. How are you breaking through? And I think we saw that a really cool, uh, there was a session on the pyramid of content. Do you want to dive into that? I, I love

[00:16:05] Matt Tonkin: that. Yeah, it was a really great visualization for. Both modern current like content structure and what we’re looking at going forward and if you think about it as almost like the um, oh and I’m blanking on but the uh, The hierarchy of needs structure.

[00:16:21] Matt Tonkin: Maslow’s?

[00:16:22] Joe Peters: Maslow’s.

[00:16:23] Matt Tonkin: There we are. Yep, exactly So you can think you can see this like bottom most tier, which is what they defined as lazy content So essentially the stuff that for lack of a better term is kind of junk content. It’s just stuff that’s filler and it’s there and then you have The more executional side and that makes up the bulk of the pyramid, which is, you know, it’s good, good content.

[00:16:46] Matt Tonkin: It’s getting out there. It’s doing what it needs to do, but it’s not, you know, really turning the needle. It’s not some amazing new advancement in terms of how you’re communicating and then that top small percentage of the pyramid is that more revolutionary content that that game changer stuff that really the real thought leaders are producing and that good content.

[00:17:10] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, and and what AI is doing is it’s not suddenly just generating those new ideas and those new thoughts for everyone It’s it’s that supplement and it’s helping Build that out So it’s really going to essentially eliminate that lazy content because suddenly you have no need for that Right, like anyone can create that lazy content using AI So it really expands out that that middle bucket where you know, it’s the the bulk of the content we’re seeing And it expands that exponentially.

[00:17:41] Matt Tonkin: But then you have that top of the pyramid where it’s, okay, what’s this good content that really is driving revolution? Um, and, and that’s, who’s going to benefit the most is the people who can really take that and go with it. So

[00:17:55] Joe Peters: great content isn’t going to go away. It’s going to be critical to breaking through.

[00:18:01] Joe Peters: And that as, uh, for marketers is. the critical insight here, which is, okay, you can join the tsunami or you can be that surfboard on top of it. Okay. And unless you’re thinking that way, uh, it’s going to be pretty hard to break through, but, uh, that’s a, that’s a good segue into our next segment in terms of breaking through.

[00:18:28] Joe Peters: Uh, we have a, a new edition here, which are questions from the community and. We’re gonna put, uh, Mr. Tonkin’s, uh, MOPS knowledge to the test. And, so what we did is… We went into the marketing ops professionals, their slack channel. And, uh, for those of you that aren’t familiar, you should really dive into this, uh, marketing ops.

[00:18:55] Joe Peters: com. It’s great community guys that are really, really, um, dedicated to advancing the community. And so we. We chatted with Mike Rizzo, who’s one of the, um, who’s the founder of the community and asked him if we could take some questions, uh, that are being posed and answer them on the podcast. And he was really excited about that.

[00:19:19] Joe Peters: And so, uh, we’re going to do that today and just one other plug for them because we love them. Mopsapalooza is coming up in November in. Anaheim, it’s going to be a great group of people getting together, pretty much focused on marketing operations. And that’s really different than, you know, what we would have saw say at inbound Matt, or what we even saw at summit in, in March, this is really, really hyper focused for those of us in mops.

[00:19:53] Joe Peters: And, uh, what, what is, are some of the burning issues and challenges that we’re facing? So let’s dive into the question. So we took this one and we’re not going to say who, who, who asked the question, but we will post this back in the community. So they have it. So the question is, do you have any tips on how we can reduce the number of failed sinks?

[00:20:18] Matt Tonkin: Take it away. And I’m gonna, I’m gonna start by saying I’m going to approach this primarily from a Marketo Salesforce perspective and, and from, for context, the original question was sort of relating those two systems. But this is information that’s pretty cross platform agnostic, but I’ll, I’ll focus specifically on that.

[00:20:38] Matt Tonkin: Um, and I think the, the key thing is really figuring out causes first and foremost, um, what Marketo has. Notification platform where you can actually see what’s happening and why look into some of the details on why those things are happening. So generating your list of the whys, first and foremost, that’s key, but, but there are some sort of general, general reasons why we see a lot of failures.

[00:21:05] Matt Tonkin: Um, one might be, um, difference in data structure from Marketo to Salesforce. Um, one of the most common I think I’m seeing is restricted pick list in Salesforce. That are connected to fields in Marketo that are essentially free type. So, you know, random data, and this goes way back to the, uh, dirty data we were talking about before, right?

[00:21:26] Matt Tonkin: Where random information gets in and, and Salesforce says, yeah, this isn’t allowed and breaks the sync. And because maybe that field is required. Whatever the case is, looking at those rules and those validation rules are important. Um, but it gets more complicated than that. You could run into situations where there’s processes happening on the Salesforce side, whether it’s a, um, like a validation process or some sort of data, um, processing, whatever the case is happening.

[00:22:01] Matt Tonkin: And while Salesforce is doing those processes, it tends to lock the object. And then if in that same moment of time, Marketo’s thinking. Or, or doing something with the object, you can have that sync failure again. Sometimes it’s going to be transient. A lot of other times it can be much more serious. And, and you’re losing that data parity across the platforms.

[00:22:24] Joe Peters: And so how common is this, Matt? Like, should people be, uh, uh, shaking in their boots when they see these, these errors? Or what do you see?

[00:22:35] Matt Tonkin: Every instance is going to have errors, probably every day. There’s going to be some errors. You’ll, if you go into your sync logs, you’ll see errors. It’s not about who has it.

[00:22:47] Matt Tonkin: It’s about how detrimental it is to your operations. Um, if it’s, you know, one field not getting written properly and then it’s a transient error and five minutes later it gets updated. Um, the damage that that’s likely to cause is much lower than if you have 100 MQLs that just don’t get pushed across the sales.

[00:23:10] Matt Tonkin: And then they sit there for three weeks before someone says, Hey, what happened here? And your window of being able to, you know, maybe have a good opportunity and have a conversation with a prospect is gone. Um, so how do you

[00:23:23] Joe Peters: stay on top of it then? Like where, where do you go?

[00:23:27] Matt Tonkin: Um, so in Marketo, um, there is the notification panel.

[00:23:31] Matt Tonkin: There’s a little like a bell, um, notification icon on the top, right? 100 percent the most, the least utilized feature in Marketo. And I’m guilty of it too. The number just keeps ticking up and then suddenly it’s like, Oh, 600 notifications that are, so, so check that daily. Um, but I think especially with larger orgs that have a larger marketing operations team, it’s, it’s formalizing who’s in charge of that.

[00:23:56] Matt Tonkin: Because a lot of the time it’s just sort of there and, you know, sometimes we click and see, but if you have someone who’s in charge or multiple people, ideally, who’s in charge of, you know, checking, seeing where there’s errors, seeing if it’s something that’s having an effect, um, that’s sort of the, the key to staying on top of this.

[00:24:17] Matt Tonkin: And this is a, this is a two way thing to where the sales ops team, um, that’s where you see a lot of issues is that mops and sales ops aren’t communicating. So if you have different numbers, but you’re not communicating that, you don’t even realize it and don’t know there’s a problem. So

[00:24:34] Joe Peters: basically improving communications and someone being on top of the bell.

[00:24:40] Matt Tonkin: Right, exactly.

[00:24:43] Joe Peters: All right. Well, I’m sure that will be hot, uh, hot content and a response that the community is going to love. So we’ll be happy to share that there. Thanks, Matt. So just before we move into our hot take section, I just want to. Thank our sponsor Knack. And, uh, they’re the sponsor of today’s episode.

[00:25:05] Joe Peters: And for those of you that aren’t familiar with them, Knack provides email and landing page creation for enterprise marketing teams, uh, and no coding is required. That’s their, that’s their sweet spot there. So allows organizations to get to market about 95 percent faster. with Knack and Matt knows this.

[00:25:25] Joe Peters: Think about a template creation, uh, if you’re coding away and how fast it can be done with Knack. And so learn more by visiting knak. com. That’s knack. com. So let’s move into our final section here, uh, before we, uh, have a little bit of fun. And this is an interesting article. We, we, we’re always combing, uh, the universe for new articles Marketing ops and AI and, um, and we like to discuss those here as well as in our newsletter.

[00:26:03] Joe Peters: For those of you that want to sign up for that also called launch codes. Uh, but here’s the, here’s the headline, uh, B2B should invest in these 10 channels in 2024. So according to 160 plus marketers, which is what are those 10 channels? So started with SEO on top blogging, search ads, website updates, social ads.

[00:26:33] Joe Peters: And then there’s, it sort of goes on from there, but Matt and I both laughed at the SEO and, you know, obviously we. We’ve all invested in marketing, uh, uh, some significant time and effort on SEO historically. But when I see this type of article in this survey of 160 plus marketers, um, what, there are two questions I have one, when was the survey done?

[00:27:04] Joe Peters: Was it like March or February? Uh, because two. Where’s AI coming into this play and how does this affect some of those things? So Matt, what’s what it what’s your

[00:27:16] Matt Tonkin: take? Yeah, I I think I have that same sort of feeling with you It’s like how how valid is this very important time and and before I get into the full take I always want to stress Too is don’t look at these lists for your true like what you’re gonna go to market with right?

[00:27:33] Matt Tonkin: Figure out, use your internal data and your attribution to figure out what’s actually working for you. Probably SEO is important, and, and all these other pieces, but really, you know, dive into your own data first. But, to your point, Joe. Yeah, great. What what’s the new stuff that’s coming out and changing?

[00:27:53] Matt Tonkin: And I think I’ve had this conversation about three times in the last two weeks, which makes me realize that more people are thinking about it. But okay, we have search engine optimization. Over the last few months, I rarely go to Google anymore, unless it’s something in the like, after September 2021, or whatever the chat, gtp cutoff date is, I go and type it in there.

[00:28:16] Matt Tonkin: And I I get feedback there and that’s becoming my new search engine in a lot of ways. Um, so to me, it’s not what’s search engine optimization. It’s what is AI optimization and is that a thing or is it going to be a thing or is it already a thing and I got to figure it out?

[00:28:35] Joe Peters: Yeah, 100 percent it’s going to be a thing.

[00:28:37] Joe Peters: You know, I find it interesting cause there’s all these privacy and copyright conversations going on and I, how everybody’s updating their, uh, robots, text files on their website saying, Hey, uh, we don’t want you crawling our website. Well, what’s that going to do in the future for your AI optimization when your site hasn’t been, um, trained on the next, uh, LLM, like people have got to start thinking

[00:29:06] Matt Tonkin: about that.

[00:29:08] Matt Tonkin: And, and thinking about how, right. There’s not like. At least it doesn’t feel the same as when we’re like, Oh, we got a trick, the Google algorithm into putting us first. Right. It does. I mean, the concept feels like it should be the same, but there’s this big gap that maybe we’re just not there yet in our understanding of how we’re going to.

[00:29:34] Matt Tonkin: You know, how we’re going to set our information that we’re putting into these models out there so that we come out when, when we ask, you know, what’s, what’s the best, uh, RevOps agency, Joe, what are we going to do to make sure that we’re, uh, we’re put out number one, right? Yeah, well,

[00:29:51] Joe Peters: we’re, I did a little bit of questioning to see where we, we stood and we’re definitely happy to be in the top three, which is pretty, pretty cool to see.

[00:30:02] Joe Peters: But, uh, yeah, I think some of the things that are never going to go away is, uh, having high quality content that’s resonating with your audience. The AI optimization is going to take that into account too. So if you’re doing really great things and you’re not doing the mail it in content or that. Trying, trying to get that content that really engages is going to be just important in the future as it is, uh, today’s, but, um, Anyways, it’s funny to see those lists because the world is, is changing fast and
you’ve really got to keep your ear to the ground in terms of what that means for you and your organization.

[00:30:42] Joe Peters: All right, let’s let’s shift gears quickly into what is a pretty funny thing that we saw last week. And that was Coca Cola introducing a new mystery flavor made by AI. Matt, what does the future

[00:31:00] Matt Tonkin: taste like? Um, I, I’m I like this. I actually really do, but like it’s, it’s in a weird way, um, because it, it feels gimmicky and it feels like, you know, the, the company hopping on the trend, which is AI.

[00:31:18] Matt Tonkin: But at the same time, the thing that hops into my mind is, you know, Coca Cola, how much, how many, like, how much resource is put into trying new flavors all the time? And, I can just picture this giant robot being like, Oh, let’s try these three flavors and get feedback from this test group. And then, oh, yep, that was good or not, right?

[00:31:38] Matt Tonkin: Like, that entire process of developing new flavors and, and new, like, foods, like, fast food, um, companies that, you know, put out a hundred new products every five years and two of them make it. Right? I can just see a whole area that’s taken over by AI. Um, in terms of, uh, this Coke, I want to try it. Uh, I’m interested to see, I’m interested to see

[00:32:05] Joe Peters: what it is.

[00:32:05] Joe Peters: We should have a live tasting on the podcast when they come. We’ll have our follow up. Yeah, if you’re in the U. S. It’s available now. If you’re in Canada, I think we have to wait till September 26 to get our

[00:32:17] Matt Tonkin: uh, into the course Hot

[00:32:20] Joe Peters: little hands, but uh, yeah, I I I love that. They’re not shooting for they’re they call it y 3000 which is The year 3000.

[00:32:30] Joe Peters: So I love that they’re shooting big too, not the year 2100 or 2200 year 3000 flavor. That’s that’s pretty

[00:32:38] Matt Tonkin: funny, but does it feel like a miss? They didn’t go Y3K.

[00:32:45] Joe Peters: Yeah, we did invest a lot of resources in Y2K. That’s for sure. Um, all right, well, uh, let’s, let’s move on from there into the final segment of.

[00:32:59] Joe Peters: This week’s, uh, episode of Launch Codes and that’s into our pairing section. So as always, I’m going to, uh, introduce, uh, an album and, uh, you would have heard it at the, at the intro and, um. We’ll have it running in the background as well for you, but I love this album. It’s by a group called Jungle. Uh, they, uh, you know, started in, uh, 2013, uh, in the UK and, uh, they really have, uh, stolen some of the sounds of soul and funk from, um, you know, earlier eras and every album is their masterpiece.

[00:33:44] Joe Peters: Every one of it. When I have it on in the background, people are like, this. This is super cool. What is this? Uh, and it really gets everybody in a sort of good mood uh Party vibe and uh, they just did some cool, uh vinyl on this one with an orange and white one Kind of reminds me a little bit of a pokemon a bit, but I I had it as the orange for um for hub spot Uh last week, but I saved it for matt for this week.

[00:34:14] Joe Peters: So we have uh The album is called Volcano, just like our, just like our podcast, Launch Codes. We’re ready to explode here. Um, and, um, and the track that, that you’re hearing is, uh, Dominoes, which is another kind of fun play in terms of getting everything in line and those, uh, dominoes, um, Uh, cascading into each other and we’re starting to see the little pieces of marketing and AI intersecting now.

[00:34:47] Joe Peters: So that was the thematic link to this week’s episode, but let me turn it over to Matt and he’s going to share, uh, his, uh, part of pairings this week. And, um, and I’m pretty excited about it. All

[00:35:05] Matt Tonkin: right. Yeah. So first thing first for me is that I am. A fan of craft beer. Uh, I also like to brew my own beer. Uh, I, my brother in law and I sort of pretend we’re brewmasters.

[00:35:19] Matt Tonkin: 60 percent of the time you just, you drink it cause you made it and you feel proud of it and occasionally you get one that you’re like, Oh, that’s really good. Um, but for me, the, the beer I’m going to show off, uh, and it’s actually not one I’ve had yet, um, is called Castronaut. Uh, Session Hazy IPA. Uh, it’s from Refined Fool, a brewery out of Sarnia, Ontario.

[00:35:43] Matt Tonkin: So, the reason I chose this particular beer, um, and why it ties in well with what we’ve been talking about is, I was actually, um, getting groceries and I was pushing the cart and my daughter was in the cart. So, I’m walking past the beer aisle in the grocery store and she points out and goes, Daddy, there’s, that’s a beer for you.

[00:36:01] Matt Tonkin: And she’s like, the one with the cat on the label. And, and that was her entire logic was, Oh, there’s a cat on the label. And…

[00:36:09] Joe Peters: So they’re marketing to kids. That’s basically what you’re saying. Yeah, right.

[00:36:14] Matt Tonkin: Yeah, the, uh, yeah. Uh, that, well, that’s a whole other topic we can get into. But the reason it resonated with me when I was preparing for this was, Um, I’ve, I’ve already got someone telling me exactly what I want and what I like.

[00:36:26] Matt Tonkin: So, uh, I don’t necessarily need AI to be telling me. I’ve already… I’ve already got my four year old

[00:36:33]Joe Peters: doing that. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, you’re going to have to crack that baby open and let us know how it tastes, but um, we won’t put you on the spot, uh, to have to do that right now, but okay.

[00:36:45] Joe Peters: Well, I think this moves, uh, to the closing here. So I just want to thank you Matt for coming on the. On the podcast this week. And thanks to everyone who’s listened to this point. Uh, it might, uh, as again, thanks mom for getting to hear. And, uh, so be sure to subscribe, uh, rate and review and stay connected with us on LinkedIn.

[00:37:09] Joe Peters: At a revenue pulse RP and join our newsletter, uh, you know, coincidentally or not coincidentally called launch codes, where you can stay up to date on all the things that we’re talking about, but until next time, keep learning, keep growing and keep being amazing. And we’ll see you soon.

[00:37:28] Matt Tonkin: Great. Thanks.